You again missed my point. Some 2 million Israeli citizens are from Arab origin. This population is presumably not Jewish. Have you ever looked into the ways the Israeli government is treating these people? To what extent the Israeli government has established a legal system to systematically discriminate against 20 percent of its population? Please have a look before responding.
Sorry, but Israeli Arabs have representation in the Knesset, in the judiciary, in the police forces and military, and even have a Supreme Court judge. They have equal rights with Jewish Israelis and many have reached senior levels in the military and police forces. Their political parties are free to participate in all electoral events, and they have even had a cabinet minister or two in the past. I don't see where the legal system discriminates against this 20% of the population. Arabs have more human rights and democratic freedoms in Israel than in any Arab country. In light of these facts, could you please elaborate on your question?
I have read more than once your articles on « what if » and « why ». I have many problems with both. Your « what if » are not random but rather attempts at applying « blame » to history. We could all exercise our « what if » as selective as you seem to do. Only two examples, maybe. What if the lead-up to the creation of Israel, and its unilateral creation without effective consideration for Palestinian sovereignty been thought out differently? What if the massive influx of Jews in Palestine had been managed te take into account the occupation of some 700,000 Palestinians that were brutally depossessed of their land, dwellings, commerces and social institutions. A second « what if » concerns the fate of Palestinian citizens of Israel (PCIs). What if the 2 million PCIs were treated as first class citizens along first class Jews of Israel? What if PCIs were not specifically targeted in law by multiple restrictions on where they may reside, what history their children may be exposed to, etc? What if Israel had put into law that it is a republic rather than a Jewish state, creating a first citizens population and a second citizens population of 2 million.
And now the why! I will obviously not go through your « why’s « . This being said , you know very well why many of the issues raised , and how they are being dealt with, are not on the six o’clock news! Many of them may only be dealt through silent diplomacy. Secondly, others cannot be resolved through outright instinctive retributions or military actions. If one were to allow Ukraine to indiscriminately attack Russia at this time, this could create the rational for overwhelming retaliation on the part of Russia, including the possible use of nuclear warheads, albeit only tactical. This is possibly why the US is still restricting Ukraine from attacking Moscow. ( i wish I didn’t have to go through this explanation). You should also be able to appreciate that no country,or enen alliance, is able to attack so many international constraints on any given moment. Either you are strategic and choose or you don’t have a chance of success!
Finally, I receive many comments from people who fumble in their texts. I choose not to engage with them on the quality of their wording. Why? Because I constantly wish to show respect for the persons and for expressing their opinions rather than focus on form. Otherwise,I could be degrading their substantive views by doing so. I could have sent you the same text in French without the blink of an eye! And nobody should say that I am lucky. We choose.
Once again, we agree to disagree. The influx of Jews was the consequence of their buying land from absentee landlords and reclaiming swamps and turning them into arable farmland. Israelis accepted the 1947 partition and were met by an Arab military invasion. The Palestinians rejected the UN resolution and paid the price. They also rejected the Clinton peace plan in the 1990's and responded to an excellent deal with repeated intifadas. They also turned the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza with the election of a terrorist government rather than turn their land into a productive ministate capable of sustaining and enriching a growing population. Yes, what if indeed. With respect to the wording of some of the comments, I stand by my reflection. One writes in order to be understood, This should be especially true for a former foreign service officer writing in his own language. The comments I receive from this individual border on gibberish. Hence my response.
As usual, given the answer, I rest. Why ? Because I always seem to think that your opinions focus on Israel only, regardless of the breath of the international issues you bring forward. My response concerning the « why ´s » had more to do with Ukraine for which you gave mercantile reasons for restricting Ukraine’s actions against Russia. I would advise you to pay more attention to European commentators on Russia.. they are scared stiff of being victims to a third world war. Ce n’est pas rien. But again, I rest.
My Dear François, I think you read me wrong. I believe that the West must allow Ukraine to wage its war with no holds barred. The danger comes when their hands are tied behind their backs and Putin wins and continues to threaten the rest of Europe as Hitler did after Munich in 1938. Biden's concern with oil prices in an election year and the Republicans following Putin's best friend Trump are a mortal danger to Western security. Living in Spain, I am very aware of European concerns and fears, and I share them. Perhaps I should have used different wording to express my thoughts on Ukraine. Thanks for pointing this out. Have a great day!
Hmmm. I guess you may have skipped over one of the issues I raised in my response, that is, the Palestinian citizens of Israel, commonly referred to as PCIs in short form!
Aren't Israeli Arabs full citizens of Israel? And is a Palestinian state becomes reality, won't all Palestinians in the occupied territories become citizens of Palestine? From the polls I have seen, few if any Israeli Arabs would seek to move to an independent Palestine.
I thought it would be proper to « rest » as I indeed do when I realize that we end our conversation ends with something like « let’s agree to disagree « , a formula that in essence ends the debate in the view of one of the debaters. Figure out who.
Sometimes, you challenge me to demonstrate the veracity of my points. Well, I will not do this! I will let several of my sources do just that for you and me. Here they are, and it may take you some time to trough through this rich material.
Here we go…
Institute for Middle East Understanding; Fact sheet: Palestinian Citizens of Israel, march 17, 2023
Human Rights Watch - isreal:: New laws marginalize Palestinian Arab Citizens ( ). In 2011 the Knesset passed the « Admissions Committee law » which allows more than 300 small majority Jewish towns to exclude applicants for residency who don’t meet vague « social suitability standards ».
US Department of State Country Report, 2015. « Israel faces significant human rights problems regarding institutional discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel….
Amnesty International: Israel ´s Apartheid against Palestinians ( they include Palestinian citizens of Israel), feb.1, 2022
Carnegie endowment.org: The many human righs challenges facing Israeli Palestinian citizens, feb. 28, 2024.
If a child lives with critism, he learns to condemn. « Children learn what they live », probably Anonymous
From what I can see, these articles refer to the Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens but live in the occupied territories. As far as the information I have found, my statement on the rights of Israeli Arabs stands. The Palestinians will have to elect a committee empowered to negotiate a final settlement with Israel, something the existing Palestinian Authority rejected on two occasion, and something both Hamas and Hezbollah vehemently oppose.
I didn’t select these « articles « to focus on the occupied territories. They are documents that research the treatment of Palestinian (Arab ) citizens of Israel! . In Israel, diantre! I realize that you may not have even read the titles of these papers. Je crois que nous sommes ici devant un cas flagrant d’aveuglement volontaire. Malheureusement!
If a child lives with unfairness, he learns injustice.
Many thanks François. From what I see in your references, Israeli democracy is not perfect. The small settlements that can legislate against Israeli Arabs are in the occupied territory, populated by extremist right wing Israelis who reacted to the violence unleashed by the various intifadas. There is no excuse for this, and Netanyahu’s successors will have to rectify the situation. As I said, Israel is nowhere near perfect, but Israeli Arabs have freedoms in Israel that none of their brethren could dream of in any Arab country.
Ridiculous rhetorical questions There is,an outcry action against all tgese genocidal type situations ie Uighurs etc but this,does not reduce the attention on Israel Palestine. .You are just partoting extremist htsterical false Israel propaganda accusing the UN and the whole world of antisrmitism for trying to stop the 74 year old Israeli occupation, apartheid, ethnic vleansing, plausible genocide of Palestine. Israel' eefusal to eesolve the,situation with a 2,state solution supoorted by the US UN and the world including Canada speaks for itself about Israrl's,supremacist refusal to accept any Pal nationaln rights which they thought could be pushed into the dust bin of History by tge Abraham accords until Oct 7 stymied their plans. Get with a 2 state soln like all your former international org bosses favoured.but qhich you reject lije Israel.
George, having served at the UN at a senior level, I believe I know the organization better than you do. As always, we agree to disagree. As well, I would suggest that you check your grammar, syntax, and spelling. As a former Canadian foreign service officer, you should be able to draft responses more coherently.
You again missed my point. Some 2 million Israeli citizens are from Arab origin. This population is presumably not Jewish. Have you ever looked into the ways the Israeli government is treating these people? To what extent the Israeli government has established a legal system to systematically discriminate against 20 percent of its population? Please have a look before responding.
Sorry, but Israeli Arabs have representation in the Knesset, in the judiciary, in the police forces and military, and even have a Supreme Court judge. They have equal rights with Jewish Israelis and many have reached senior levels in the military and police forces. Their political parties are free to participate in all electoral events, and they have even had a cabinet minister or two in the past. I don't see where the legal system discriminates against this 20% of the population. Arabs have more human rights and democratic freedoms in Israel than in any Arab country. In light of these facts, could you please elaborate on your question?
Dear Eduardo,
I have read more than once your articles on « what if » and « why ». I have many problems with both. Your « what if » are not random but rather attempts at applying « blame » to history. We could all exercise our « what if » as selective as you seem to do. Only two examples, maybe. What if the lead-up to the creation of Israel, and its unilateral creation without effective consideration for Palestinian sovereignty been thought out differently? What if the massive influx of Jews in Palestine had been managed te take into account the occupation of some 700,000 Palestinians that were brutally depossessed of their land, dwellings, commerces and social institutions. A second « what if » concerns the fate of Palestinian citizens of Israel (PCIs). What if the 2 million PCIs were treated as first class citizens along first class Jews of Israel? What if PCIs were not specifically targeted in law by multiple restrictions on where they may reside, what history their children may be exposed to, etc? What if Israel had put into law that it is a republic rather than a Jewish state, creating a first citizens population and a second citizens population of 2 million.
And now the why! I will obviously not go through your « why’s « . This being said , you know very well why many of the issues raised , and how they are being dealt with, are not on the six o’clock news! Many of them may only be dealt through silent diplomacy. Secondly, others cannot be resolved through outright instinctive retributions or military actions. If one were to allow Ukraine to indiscriminately attack Russia at this time, this could create the rational for overwhelming retaliation on the part of Russia, including the possible use of nuclear warheads, albeit only tactical. This is possibly why the US is still restricting Ukraine from attacking Moscow. ( i wish I didn’t have to go through this explanation). You should also be able to appreciate that no country,or enen alliance, is able to attack so many international constraints on any given moment. Either you are strategic and choose or you don’t have a chance of success!
Finally, I receive many comments from people who fumble in their texts. I choose not to engage with them on the quality of their wording. Why? Because I constantly wish to show respect for the persons and for expressing their opinions rather than focus on form. Otherwise,I could be degrading their substantive views by doing so. I could have sent you the same text in French without the blink of an eye! And nobody should say that I am lucky. We choose.
François
Once again, we agree to disagree. The influx of Jews was the consequence of their buying land from absentee landlords and reclaiming swamps and turning them into arable farmland. Israelis accepted the 1947 partition and were met by an Arab military invasion. The Palestinians rejected the UN resolution and paid the price. They also rejected the Clinton peace plan in the 1990's and responded to an excellent deal with repeated intifadas. They also turned the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza with the election of a terrorist government rather than turn their land into a productive ministate capable of sustaining and enriching a growing population. Yes, what if indeed. With respect to the wording of some of the comments, I stand by my reflection. One writes in order to be understood, This should be especially true for a former foreign service officer writing in his own language. The comments I receive from this individual border on gibberish. Hence my response.
As usual, given the answer, I rest. Why ? Because I always seem to think that your opinions focus on Israel only, regardless of the breath of the international issues you bring forward. My response concerning the « why ´s » had more to do with Ukraine for which you gave mercantile reasons for restricting Ukraine’s actions against Russia. I would advise you to pay more attention to European commentators on Russia.. they are scared stiff of being victims to a third world war. Ce n’est pas rien. But again, I rest.
My Dear François, I think you read me wrong. I believe that the West must allow Ukraine to wage its war with no holds barred. The danger comes when their hands are tied behind their backs and Putin wins and continues to threaten the rest of Europe as Hitler did after Munich in 1938. Biden's concern with oil prices in an election year and the Republicans following Putin's best friend Trump are a mortal danger to Western security. Living in Spain, I am very aware of European concerns and fears, and I share them. Perhaps I should have used different wording to express my thoughts on Ukraine. Thanks for pointing this out. Have a great day!
Sorry! By the way, any comments concerning the treatment of PCÎ’s?
PCI's ?
Hmmm. I guess you may have skipped over one of the issues I raised in my response, that is, the Palestinian citizens of Israel, commonly referred to as PCIs in short form!
Aren't Israeli Arabs full citizens of Israel? And is a Palestinian state becomes reality, won't all Palestinians in the occupied territories become citizens of Palestine? From the polls I have seen, few if any Israeli Arabs would seek to move to an independent Palestine.
Not sure how you dig up this information, but it should be out there for everyone to see.
Hi Kati, that’s why I put it out there🌹🌹🌹
Working on it. Mind you, if any of your readers knows how to set up a podcast, it might go faster. Anybody?
I learn a lot from reading your articles. Thank you.
Many thanksfor being such an avid supporter 🌹🌹🌹
You're welcome. Shabbat Shalom.
Shabbat shalom!
I thought it would be proper to « rest » as I indeed do when I realize that we end our conversation ends with something like « let’s agree to disagree « , a formula that in essence ends the debate in the view of one of the debaters. Figure out who.
Sometimes, you challenge me to demonstrate the veracity of my points. Well, I will not do this! I will let several of my sources do just that for you and me. Here they are, and it may take you some time to trough through this rich material.
Here we go…
Institute for Middle East Understanding; Fact sheet: Palestinian Citizens of Israel, march 17, 2023
Human Rights Watch - isreal:: New laws marginalize Palestinian Arab Citizens ( ). In 2011 the Knesset passed the « Admissions Committee law » which allows more than 300 small majority Jewish towns to exclude applicants for residency who don’t meet vague « social suitability standards ».
US Department of State Country Report, 2015. « Israel faces significant human rights problems regarding institutional discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel….
Amnesty International: Israel ´s Apartheid against Palestinians ( they include Palestinian citizens of Israel), feb.1, 2022
Carnegie endowment.org: The many human righs challenges facing Israeli Palestinian citizens, feb. 28, 2024.
If a child lives with critism, he learns to condemn. « Children learn what they live », probably Anonymous
From what I can see, these articles refer to the Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens but live in the occupied territories. As far as the information I have found, my statement on the rights of Israeli Arabs stands. The Palestinians will have to elect a committee empowered to negotiate a final settlement with Israel, something the existing Palestinian Authority rejected on two occasion, and something both Hamas and Hezbollah vehemently oppose.
I didn’t select these « articles « to focus on the occupied territories. They are documents that research the treatment of Palestinian (Arab ) citizens of Israel! . In Israel, diantre! I realize that you may not have even read the titles of these papers. Je crois que nous sommes ici devant un cas flagrant d’aveuglement volontaire. Malheureusement!
If a child lives with unfairness, he learns injustice.
Many thanks François. From what I see in your references, Israeli democracy is not perfect. The small settlements that can legislate against Israeli Arabs are in the occupied territory, populated by extremist right wing Israelis who reacted to the violence unleashed by the various intifadas. There is no excuse for this, and Netanyahu’s successors will have to rectify the situation. As I said, Israel is nowhere near perfect, but Israeli Arabs have freedoms in Israel that none of their brethren could dream of in any Arab country.
Ridiculous rhetorical questions There is,an outcry action against all tgese genocidal type situations ie Uighurs etc but this,does not reduce the attention on Israel Palestine. .You are just partoting extremist htsterical false Israel propaganda accusing the UN and the whole world of antisrmitism for trying to stop the 74 year old Israeli occupation, apartheid, ethnic vleansing, plausible genocide of Palestine. Israel' eefusal to eesolve the,situation with a 2,state solution supoorted by the US UN and the world including Canada speaks for itself about Israrl's,supremacist refusal to accept any Pal nationaln rights which they thought could be pushed into the dust bin of History by tge Abraham accords until Oct 7 stymied their plans. Get with a 2 state soln like all your former international org bosses favoured.but qhich you reject lije Israel.
George, having served at the UN at a senior level, I believe I know the organization better than you do. As always, we agree to disagree. As well, I would suggest that you check your grammar, syntax, and spelling. As a former Canadian foreign service officer, you should be able to draft responses more coherently.